Posting THIS & THIS, it was a reasonable response to a few items like, let’s
see, 20,000 Marines being fired in Feb, massive unemployment in
the US (compounded with at least 20,000 in Feb and sequential months of military
personnel being dismissed) nut jobs shooting up schools and the current state
of America. I can tell you, being overseas and looking at America, we have some
serious issues and other countries are pointing and laughing because they see
America falling, fast.
Will there be another school,
mall or similar shooting? I bet yes until something like the below is done.
When it happens, before all the nay sayers say we should collect everyone’s
guns, ask, where there armed guards there? I will bet there wont be any at that location but there will be some at banks and protecting politicians.
Its already been proven that
"Gun Free" zones don’t work (ask the shooter during the Batman movie
– he specifically looked for a "Gun Free" movie theater). Taking away
my second amendment and guns isn’t the answer. Those that think why do you need a certain
type of weapon to hunt (shaking head) its not about my right to hunt, the
second amendment is about my rights within the constitution and the right to
bear arms. If we lose (surrender) the 2nd amendment, the first is right behind
it. Lose those and when you look into the mirror you wont see a free man. I’ve
already addressed these topics HERE.
There was a lot and many of
it good feedback top having armed Vets at schools. Hmmm we have armed guards at
banks, at some corporations, in fact most of congress and politicians have
security. Why doesn’t elementary schools? Why? AND, if politicians like to
have guns protecting them, why do they want to take them away from us? Can’t we
protect ourselves? Our own families? You see its about rights, not what gun I
prefer to hunt with.
Some negatives concerning of
the Government getting involved then it turning to shit (go figure) spoil a
plan to employee Vets at elementary schools, but after many smart people that
commented on the post began to brain storm, there were ways to have this circumnavigated.
Perhaps I will start a company that organizes Vets to protect schools??? Anyone want
In order to station armed guards in
U.S. schools, an idea advocated by the National Rifle Association, America
could tap a ready pool of qualified candidates, Shemtov said. U.S. soldiers
returning from overseas are well suited for school protection, he said, and
“instead of returning with nothing to do there’s a sea of work” as school
“They’re the elite of the American
people,” Shemtov said. “You have people obligated, morally and ethically to the
state, to the flag – this is a soldier. It’s a person who went out to do this.
All you have to do is give him the appropriate training to do this in the
private sector….This is the best of the American people, like they’re the
best of the Israeli people. They’re people who took it upon themselves to help
JERUSALEM – Americans intent on
ensuring a school massacre like the one in Newtown, Conn., never happens
again could learn a lot from Israel, where the long menu of precautions
includes armed teachers.
The Jewish state, which has long faced threats of terrorist strikes
in crowded locations including schools, takes an all-of-the-above
approach to safety in the classroom. Fences, metal detectors and armed
private guards are part of a strategy overseen by the country’s national
police. And the idea of armed teachers in the classroom, which stirred
much controversy in the wake of the U.S. attack, has long been in
practice in Israel, though a minority of them carry weapons today.
Oren Shemtov, CEO of Israel’s Academy of Security and Investigation,
noted that attacks typically happen in a matter of minutes, and said
gun-toting teachers could, at the very least, buy time for kids to
escape while police race to the scene.
“Two (armed) teachers would have kept (the Newtown shooter) occupied
for 45 seconds each,” said Shemtov, who is one of 16 people in Israel
authorized to train those who instruct school guards.
Shemtov, a veteran of Israel’s security services who has been
teaching security methods for 22 years, praised the Newtown teachers who
gave their lives trying to protect children, but lamented the fact that
they weren’t able to shoot back when gunman Adam Lanza opened fire,
killing 20 children and six adults before shooting himself in the head
as police converged on Sand Hook Elementary School.
“We need to give them the tools to be heroes,” Shemtov said. “No one wants to be a hero. They did what they had to do.”
Security consultant Dov Zwerling, an Israeli counter-terror police
veteran, believes armed guards are crucial for school security.
“From what I know of almost all of the active shooter events in the
U.S., almost all of them conclude with the shooter taking his own life
the moment he is challenged by the first officer on the scene,” Zwerling
said. “Why not challenge him earlier?”
Shemtov said the two most critical keys to protecting schools are
armed guards and armed teacher response teams. But, as in the U.S., the
idea of teachers carrying guns raised some objections in Israel, he
“At one point the Interior Ministry mandated that a certain
percentage of teachers be armed but because, over time, fewer teachers
carried weapons, for a number of reasons, including philosophical
objections, and due to increased terror attacks, private guards were
mandated at all schools," he said.
School security in Israel is an extension of the comprehensive
approach authorities there take to protecting all public places.
According to National Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld, police work with
the Israeli Defense Force and the private security companies that
protect such places as malls, bus stations, schools and universities. A
centralized command system allows for quick dissemination of
intelligence to every police officer and private guard in the field, he
A collective effort among police, private guards and teachers
requires that the civilians involved in armed security receive rigorous
training. Private guards undergo at least three weeks of advanced
training with a 9mm weapon and guards employed for school protection
must pass criminal, mental and physical checks.
“A long course, at a minimum of 40-60 hours, is needed so that the
instructor can feel out the student,” said Shemtov, noting that not all
teachers or guards are suited for school protection. “Course candidates
should be a certain age, emotionally mature, of a certain mentality,
physically healthy – and from there move to training.”
In order to station armed guards in U.S. schools, an idea advocated
by the National Rifle Association, America could tap a ready pool of
qualified candidates, Shemtov said. U.S. soldiers returning from
overseas are well suited for school protection, he said, and “instead of
returning with nothing to do there’s a sea of work” as school guards.
“They’re the elite of the American people,” Shemtov said. “You have
people obligated, morally and ethically to the state, to the flag – this
is a soldier. It’s a person who went out to do this. All you have to do
is give him the appropriate training to do this in the private
sector….This is the best of the American people, like they’re the best
of the Israeli people. They’re people who took it upon themselves to
help others.” by Greg Tepper
Here are some
comments & discussion points from my post (yes I’m a guest author there as
well) at BlackFive.net
Won't happen. I had the same thought
after 911 and Beslan. Plenty of Vets, Reservists, shooters, and hunters in my
town. With an call for unpaid volunteers, we could easily post an armed guard
at the town school every day school is in session.
Background check and train them all
you want, I would spend a vacation day a month to participate.
It would become a large Federal
Agency like TSA and Vets would have to apply and be screened to see if they
were qualified to actually look at, touch and handle weapons, trusted to have
them, and then be trained by specialists hired by the new agency who were
probably never in the miltary, and only learned to shoot a few months prior.
All the local political hacks left
and right would "Hook up" their families and donor's kids who needed
jobs, and the vets would be at the end of the line again. Well, because they
are just to military like and can't be trusted not to wig out, just ask Big Sis
Napolitano, them vets are a threat remember?
The supervisors would be the
displaced substandard fed employees from all the other agencies that wanted
The SEIU would want in on this too.
It would be in the contract that every magazine change would be followed be
followed by a 15min break, regardless of active combative status.
Exactly correct. People love seeing
our troops carrying a gun and standing in front of stuff overseas, they won't
like seeing that here. It might make their tummys upset. Better to just ban all
guns and wait for the peace and love to follow.
I would generally be for this if the
vets wouldn't carry those scary looking guns unless the clip had 10 rounds or
less. I would also require them to pass a union sponsored test on
I would think being on the big dyke
on a bike Nappyheadedtuna krazyassed vets list would be the best recommendation
a krazyassed vet could have…why???…
*well when he snaps it's one shot
one kill…I don't wanna suffer no mo'…
but yes vets would make good
choices…after vetting…unlike the the presidunce(not yet vetted)…
* = sarcasm but the libbys won't
unnerstan' it…so I had to point it out…
I'd do it in a heartbeat, but being
a veteran who saw a doctor one time about ptsd, I'm positive no liberal or
sheep would want me in a school. In fact, I'm betting on the new gun ban that's
comingthat there will be specific language against vets with ptsd.
They will probably get the Vets with
TBI also, just to be on the safe side, and if you have both well your screwed.
Ya, I don't think it will happen
either, makes way too much sense and then the jackassery as stated above would
happen with everyone dipping their hands into it. Perhaps all of the bs could
be avoided if they volunteered however, again, the gov wouldn't stand for that
as our nations heroes "can't be trusted"…..WTF happened to America?
What happened to America ? Barack
Hussein Obama (Obamugabe) and the Liberal Thug Machine.
It's a great idea ! Talked about it
on the radio yesterday here in Maryland, and there was only one LIBERAL oxygen
thief who phoned in and did'nt like it.
But like the above comments suggest, when you have a worthless piece of dogs$%t
as a leader , who's own Homeland Security Sec branded veterans as extremeists ,
i can't see it happening either.
"WTF happened to America?"
Truly. TWO helpings of obama? And my
thoughts these last oh, 3 years or so. I thought I woke up in an alternate
universe a couple years ago. 92% serious.
I would volunteer to do this in a
semi-retirement situation. Like volunteer firemen. In a heartbeat. Get enough
of us, we do it 4 hours a day. No one gets tired and sloppy. Plenty of
communication protocol and backup.
We have 'greeters' at most large
stand alone retail venues. Of course, those people aren't armed but they aren't
just there to say Hi to Grandma Biden either. It's not much of a stretch to
employ America to safeguard something so precious as the children of parents
who are by and large Working and paying taxes, being part of the solution, (let
alone just being children for God's Sake !)
We've come a Long F way from 1960.
;-] Good God Man! As long as we're
in this alternate universe, may I please just go back to 1960, then when 1969
comes along, cycle right on back to 1960 at 31-Dec-1969 11:59:59:99.
No reason whatsoever this is a bad
idea. Yet, this poster won't sell it. How about that guy in a nice blazer, he
helps with safely unloading the bus, makes certain the grounds are secure,
maybe helps in lunch, and maybe takes a class if a teacher has to leave in an
emergency. He or she is an all round help in the school, and oh yea, under that
jacked, well hidden, is a gun.
No one wants us to beat our chests,
they want protection. Fix the problem and you become the solution. If you want
to score political points, that is called indulgence…
I think that used to be the job
description of a Principal. I never saw my HS Principal carrying a gun, but it
wouldn't have surprised me one bit. Of course this was back when I'd
occasionally bring a 12 gauge in my pickup if we were going hunting after
school, and guys learned about capitalism from trading pocket knives, and every
swinging dick in school knew how to lay a bead with an arc welder, and . If
there were any mass shootings in a school back then, somehow I missed them.
Note: My apologies to my 5th grade
English teacher Mrs. Vivian Brown (RIP) for that intentional run-on sentence
above. I see an image of her sitting at her desk with her planed-down 32"
Louisville Slugger "Board of Education" every time I catch myself in
a grammatical faux pas.
When I was in Middle school we had
the principal and they we had the Asst. Principal who was really the Enforcer,
and yes he had baseball bat at his disposal!
COACH RUSSEL(rip) at my high skool
was called a cheek lifter with his fiberglass bb filled "board".
started low and fast, you wound up on your tiptoes, cheeks lifted near the
shoulder blades…problem solved, for that day at least…circa late 50's early
I am repulsed by the idea of even
needing armed guards at school. That being said, I don't think arming teachers
is the best thing either. It takes lots of training to be able to keep your
head in a high stress situation. I LOVE the idea of Vets however filling the
role of protectors. Unfortunately is makes too much sense and the government would
become involved because they have to CONTROL everything and then it would all
go to s**t!
I can imagine some guy showing up at
the classroom door with a Glock back in the early '70s, and within 60 seconds
Mrs Brown would have him at the blackboard berating his inability to diagram a
prepositional phrase. She was Chuck Norris with an English degree. I doubt she
ever had a moment of indecision in her life.
Some of the posters have mentioned
one of the problems.
HR Directors, especially those with gender and/or racial grievance degrees
usually won't hire vets especially those with reserve responsibilities. And
that means all recent service.
School boards could change that by a moratorium on all school hiring that is
not former armed service. Not just one armed guard outside hoping to notice
something and shoot first, but lots of active reservists backed up by
Think Israeli model. Look at how many teachers are armed.
If a particular HR weenie can't meet the staffing needs with that criteria in
place, fire them. I bet they wouldn't have to have even a hundred of them fired
nationwide before the rest found out how to advertise and obtain veteran
applications for employment in the schools.
Then think about the difference between Occupy sympathizers as role models and
teachers for our kids, versus Veterans and active Reservists.
Gang- All great points & I
appreciate the comments. So I open it up for brainstorming. How would a society
do this, without the Gov" getting involved. One thought is a pure
volunteer organization like that of the previously mentioned,Israeli model or
something like a Guardian Angel (http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Guardian-Angels.html)
organization??? C'mon people, think!! If it was all volunteer and the
"volunteers" stayed off of school property, like just across the
street which would still be a visual deterrence, it would be hard for the big
gov to start mandating. They could even apply for the same job requirements for
substitute teachers and could assist in augmenting the school if a teacher had
to leave early etc. (protection + force multiplier)
The only problem I have with armed
security in the schools, is that any kid coming to the school to kill others,
is going to take out the security officials first. Security won’t know it is
going to happen until they are shot, because they see the kids every school
day, and the killer could walk right up to them like they have many times
before. I would rather let any school official who wants to, and passes
stringent qualifications, carry a concealed gun, but not tell who has them and
who doesn’t. It wouldn’t make any sense to advertise who to shoot first.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but I
concur with Smorgasbord – all of these acts had been premeditated and
researched for weeks or months. A single armed guard is simply the first target
to be taken out under those circumstances. Two guards, in different locations,
offers a bit more resiliency, but still not enough since one getting shot will
alert the other to danger, but not tell him who the enemy is – it engages a
defensive posture and readiness, but doesn't do much to lock down the threat.
Simply put, someone with initiative
and months of planning will always be able to take out at least one soft
target before any defensive assets mobilize. And, in all likelihood, will
generally take out several. Putting veterans in schools in visible 'security
positions' sadly won't do much to stop this sort of violence.
you may be correct…but it could
Oh, I do think it could help – the
problem, however, is one of expectations. People like to make statements like
"If guns weren't so readily available, these sorts of things wouldn't
happen!" (wrong), and, from the Right, "If we have armed veterans in
schools -or armed teachers- this wouldn't happen!" (also wrong). Both, in
different ways, may reduce the likelihood of mass murders, but the first certainly
isn't a comprehensive solution, and I'm fairly convinced the second isn't
If it's presented as a small step to
help, that's great. If it's presented as a cure to this sort of thing then the
backlash against it will be even more fierce when, inevitably, a shooting
happens despite the presence of an armed veteran. At the end of the day, nothing
will ever prevent all of these sorts of events – it's about, like most things,
mitigating risk. In theory, armed veterans do that, but I think that in
practice the actual net effect is going to be fairly small.
Presented with lowered expectations
as part of a larger plan, and I could see it being useful, certainly. The
negatives -the general sense many would have about having armed men at their
schools- also needs to be considered, though.
shifts…locations…radio comm check on non sked basis…could help if the
manpower pool is large enuff…but I don't have the field savvy you dogbreath
doughboys an' leatherneck devildogs do…but I could act as a go-fer if
I'll copy and paste what I said on
This Ain't Hell:
With teachers complaining about
their salaries nonstop since I was in elementary school, there is no way school
districts will pay these guys enough to make it worth their time or effort.
Such a low-action job will certainly fail to attract the high-speed Ranger
types you envision, especially for such low pay. Even private security firms,
like one I worked for after graduation (as an armed guard, no less) don’t pay
enough for a married guy to live on. I got a huge pay cut going from an ROTC
cadet working for campus police to a private, armed security guard for the largest
security company in this area of the state. It was a struggle to stay awake at
the jobs I worked at, too, more boring than any CQ duty I have ever done.
If this happened, I predict the
retention rate would be abysmally low, and schools would have to revert to the
stereotypical security guard (75% of my post-graduation coworkers), fat,
unmotivated, and untrustworthy. That, to me, would have be an overwhelming
negative. Not to mention the huge “Shoot me first!” sign on a solitary security
I think a far more sensible idea is
to hire more veterans as teachers! Make it easier for veterans to get their
teaching licenses. Make programs like Troops to Teachers more accessible. It
would go far in portraying veterans as normal people, and hopefully shake kids
out of their entitlement mindsets because they had teachers who used to work
for a living. I know that when I walk into a classroom and kids see my haircut
and bearing I have instant credibility. Also; offer an incentive to teachers
who attend tactical classes. Find the sheepdogs who are already educators and
empower them. I think having intelligently armed teachers is a better idea than
one security guard posted at the front of the school. It’s a lot harder to
dodge three armed teachers when you don’t know who they are than one uniformed
I’m a semi-pro substitute teacher
(in the reserves now, working on my teaching license) and I carry every day.
It’s totally legal here, nobody knows, it doesn’t make me a target, and I don’t
cost any extra. I do a walkthrough of every school I teach, pay attention to
OAKOC, and have a plan to get everyone out alive. Not only do I carry a handgun
everywhere, but I have an IFAK in my bag, an idea I think people overlook. It
shouldn’t just be about defense and offense, it should also include TCCC.